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	<title>Comments on: The Adolescent - As Whole Person</title>
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	<link>http://www.adolescentpsychoanalysis.org/2008/06/the-adolescent-as-whole-person/</link>
	<description>© Ronald E. Ricker, M.D. 2008 http://adolescentpsychoanalysis.org "No Distance, It's the Ride"</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 05:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: jekaiser</title>
		<link>http://www.adolescentpsychoanalysis.org/2008/06/the-adolescent-as-whole-person/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>jekaiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>At first I thought I knew what you meant by "joy" but I was thrown off when you specified joy independent of delusions or grandiosity.  I've always thought that delusions and grandiosity would have a lot more to do with any "joy" a disturbed adolescent experiences.  After all when they're that severely disturbed, do they have any reason to experience true joy? 

Thanks for your response.  I interpreted it as adolescents ability to see a "silver lining"?

Adolescents today are ridiculously infantilized to begin with.  Then, when the developmental imperative to establish their own identity seperate from their parents kicks in, the result is often more infantilization when the adolescents behavior doesn't meet the parents expectations.    

Your patient is quite intriguing.  Is this an individuation issue?  Seems the mother views her as dysfunctional and/or damaged.  At a minimum, this is probably the message that is being sent out if she can't allow a 16yr old to speak for herself.  Perhaps the mother is also resentful of the attention the daughter receives as a result of her behavioral problems?  Poor kid must feel alienated and unaccepted by her own family.   

Perhaps she's ADD (inattentive, impulsive, non-hyperactive)?  Think its possible her meth use is a method of self medicating?  I can't imagine anyone would prescribe a stimulant to a meth user or even a former meth user.  Maybe Strattera (non-stimulant) or Vyvanse (stimulant but a Prodrug) could help her?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At first I thought I knew what you meant by &#8220;joy&#8221; but I was thrown off when you specified joy independent of delusions or grandiosity.  I&#8217;ve always thought that delusions and grandiosity would have a lot more to do with any &#8220;joy&#8221; a disturbed adolescent experiences.  After all when they&#8217;re that severely disturbed, do they have any reason to experience true joy? </p>
<p>Thanks for your response.  I interpreted it as adolescents ability to see a &#8220;silver lining&#8221;?</p>
<p>Adolescents today are ridiculously infantilized to begin with.  Then, when the developmental imperative to establish their own identity seperate from their parents kicks in, the result is often more infantilization when the adolescents behavior doesn&#8217;t meet the parents expectations.    </p>
<p>Your patient is quite intriguing.  Is this an individuation issue?  Seems the mother views her as dysfunctional and/or damaged.  At a minimum, this is probably the message that is being sent out if she can&#8217;t allow a 16yr old to speak for herself.  Perhaps the mother is also resentful of the attention the daughter receives as a result of her behavioral problems?  Poor kid must feel alienated and unaccepted by her own family.   </p>
<p>Perhaps she&#8217;s ADD (inattentive, impulsive, non-hyperactive)?  Think its possible her meth use is a method of self medicating?  I can&#8217;t imagine anyone would prescribe a stimulant to a meth user or even a former meth user.  Maybe Strattera (non-stimulant) or Vyvanse (stimulant but a Prodrug) could help her?</p>
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		<title>By: RER MD PSYCH PSYCHOANALYST</title>
		<link>http://www.adolescentpsychoanalysis.org/2008/06/the-adolescent-as-whole-person/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>RER MD PSYCH PSYCHOANALYST</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adolescentpsychoanalysis.org/?p=17#comment-5</guid>
		<description>#2          
 Today, 02:58 AM
admin  
Administrator
 	
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3
 Chapter 7 Response
I think you have a different approach to 
viewing life than most regular adolescents do, not that you are 
one. As you indicated in emails you have sent me, you're life is different than most adolescents I see. You had to grow up quickly. You ran away from home at 16. I imagine that this 'growing up' started well before you ran away. You were an adult in adolescents clothing. The sort of adolescent I refer to are kids who are much different than you or the kids who are regularly getting their asses wiped, lest they fail. You, at 
least from my point of view, are absolutely correct regards the ass 
wipees . If not failing doesn't mind incompetence, they are 'successful'.

The kids I speak of are pretty much the opposite. Their parents 
often are pretty much done with them. Many people in my field are 
also done with them or have no idea what to do with them. In general, there isn't an 'ass wiped' kid in the 
lot. For the most part, many of these kids go on and do well. What 
I mean by more joy is that their idea of limits and strictures are 
that they don't exist. Joy is probably wrong. 'Fun' might be closer. They'll often try most anything. I am also leaving out of the equation that adolescence is or can be a time of sadness, insecurity, etc., of great proportions. 

I will address that idea later. These adolescents can find fun in the most 
unusual of circumstances. They usually do move on and get a more 
realistic sense of overall satisfaction. Those who are really 
disturbed can often be helped a lot. Then they go on. This latter 
group is the one I refer to.

I hope this brief explanation sheds some light. When I write, unlike 
now, I usually spend a great deal of time writing and re-writing, 
trying to make sure I am saying what I want.

Thank you for your question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#2<br />
 Today, 02:58 AM<br />
admin<br />
Administrator</p>
<p>Join Date: May 2008<br />
Posts: 3<br />
 Chapter 7 Response<br />
I think you have a different approach to<br />
viewing life than most regular adolescents do, not that you are<br />
one. As you indicated in emails you have sent me, you&#8217;re life is different than most adolescents I see. You had to grow up quickly. You ran away from home at 16. I imagine that this &#8216;growing up&#8217; started well before you ran away. You were an adult in adolescents clothing. The sort of adolescent I refer to are kids who are much different than you or the kids who are regularly getting their asses wiped, lest they fail. You, at<br />
least from my point of view, are absolutely correct regards the ass<br />
wipees . If not failing doesn&#8217;t mind incompetence, they are &#8217;successful&#8217;.</p>
<p>The kids I speak of are pretty much the opposite. Their parents<br />
often are pretty much done with them. Many people in my field are<br />
also done with them or have no idea what to do with them. In general, there isn&#8217;t an &#8216;ass wiped&#8217; kid in the<br />
lot. For the most part, many of these kids go on and do well. What<br />
I mean by more joy is that their idea of limits and strictures are<br />
that they don&#8217;t exist. Joy is probably wrong. &#8216;Fun&#8217; might be closer. They&#8217;ll often try most anything. I am also leaving out of the equation that adolescence is or can be a time of sadness, insecurity, etc., of great proportions. </p>
<p>I will address that idea later. These adolescents can find fun in the most<br />
unusual of circumstances. They usually do move on and get a more<br />
realistic sense of overall satisfaction. Those who are really<br />
disturbed can often be helped a lot. Then they go on. This latter<br />
group is the one I refer to.</p>
<p>I hope this brief explanation sheds some light. When I write, unlike<br />
now, I usually spend a great deal of time writing and re-writing,<br />
trying to make sure I am saying what I want.</p>
<p>Thank you for your question.</p>
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		<title>By: jekaiser</title>
		<link>http://www.adolescentpsychoanalysis.org/2008/06/the-adolescent-as-whole-person/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>jekaiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adolescentpsychoanalysis.org/?p=17#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Can't really wrap myself around the idea that adolescents find more joy in life... Nowadays they don't get the sense of accomplishment that serves as a precursor to overall life satisfaction. Those in a position of authority (i.e. Parents, teachers, law enforcement) are too busy wiping their asses for them in an attempt to not let the kids fail. But that method of preventing low self esteem just produces incompetence.

My students are older (I teach grad classes) but the entitlement issues they have stem from everything being handed to them during their childhood and adolescence. Consequently it seems that they can only cope when things are handed to them which removes any sense of accomplishment since they're not doing anything...  They're just fragile people. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't see fragility or avoiding stressors as joy. Its more like "ignorance is bliss"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t really wrap myself around the idea that adolescents find more joy in life&#8230; Nowadays they don&#8217;t get the sense of accomplishment that serves as a precursor to overall life satisfaction. Those in a position of authority (i.e. Parents, teachers, law enforcement) are too busy wiping their asses for them in an attempt to not let the kids fail. But that method of preventing low self esteem just produces incompetence.</p>
<p>My students are older (I teach grad classes) but the entitlement issues they have stem from everything being handed to them during their childhood and adolescence. Consequently it seems that they can only cope when things are handed to them which removes any sense of accomplishment since they&#8217;re not doing anything&#8230;  They&#8217;re just fragile people. Maybe I&#8217;m wrong but I can&#8217;t see fragility or avoiding stressors as joy. Its more like &#8220;ignorance is bliss&#8221;</p>
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